QUIZ#8 Who made this toy?

[grwebster]

Their rarity is hard to judge for me. I have only seen mine, and the other one I expect {er hope} is somehwere in the collection. In my classification they are X Rare, but as far as value goes, I doubt they are worth much. Not enough collectors who know about them to value them according to their rarity.
We shall see if anyone on this forum chimes in about them now that they have been identified.
I didn't pay much for the JU-52. I got it in London from a dealer, who certainly had it for sale for a while until I came along, so I guess not much interest in England at the time.
I expect these Pilot Fly toys were distributed only in Holland, Scandinavia, and Germany based on the aircraft alone.
I think the 1/200 scale collectors crowd knows about them more than normal {? what is normal? Are we considered normal?} toy collectors.
These collectors want everything ever made in 200 scale, boats, submarines, cars, planes, people, buildings etc and it was one them who identified the JU-52 for me.

[MichaelB]

Well, I find it interesting partly because the Dinky hype overshadows almost all the other efforts from the time. It's a common dilemma in other collecting areas where a "name" is most all collectors know, and price accordingly.
It really overshadows some outstanding work by "others"...the parenthesis producers!
Nice models...not machine work but by the hand of artisans...
Michael

[Tone]

Sue Richardson did not describe Pilot Fly in her 1997 book. For Denmark other than Tekno she had Bento, Birk and Moller, none of which made a Ju52. Mecline I think were from Norway not Denmark. So there, we have a nice new old line of die cast planes. Some of the other ones in the photo look like Dinky Toys.

[johnbeugels]

Well, very interesting topic on the Pilot Fly models.
In my collection I have 6 models. DC2 reg PH-KLM, Fokker T11, Fokker FVIIa reg. OY-DFY, Fokker FVIIb reg. OY-DIG, Fokker FXXXVI reg.PH-KLM, Fokker, Fokker FVIII reg. SE-ACF. The models all are made of lead and not mazac like dinky's. The models and propellers are cast in the same way as on the picture from Pilot Fly. Landing gear is made of wire and cast into the models.
In the Netherlands they are known as made by Gispen, a Dutch furniture design company and these should be made for Fokker as promotion models. So maybe this is wrong and it is Pilot Fly. I contacted Gispen a long time ago but never got a decent reply.
I bought the models from Bob Dros, Bernard Macaire, Peter Jongbloed and at a Amsterdam swapmeet.
Once a DC 2 with box was sold at Christies and was described as a KLM promotion. I never saw any other of these planes.

I will take pictures and send them to GR.

John Beugels.

[MichaelB]

This is a fascinating story!
Please send the photos to us here at MAC, On-line!
Michael

[grwebster]

John doesn't get into posting photos, but when I get his I will post them asap for all of us to see.
John is probably, no not probably, is the expert on Dinky Toy sets and wrote an excellent booklet on these many years ago.
He has over 150 boxed sets, I believe at last count, now more for sure.
Pilot also made ship models in the late 1930s. I have a contact for about 5 more of the Fly plane models but not sure if it will happen.

[grwebster]

John sent this:
We were convinced for a long time these were Gispen models but now it is clear for me.
Someone in Denmark must have a catalog or a advertising from the period.
The real aircraft are well dated from Fokker archives.
F VII was introduced 11 april 1924 with registration H-NACC (old registration for Holland) 5 were made until 1925.
F VIIa march 1925, one Bristol Jupiter engine.
F VII b November 1925, three Wright Wirlwind, this is the famous Southern Cross type.
F VIII 1926, two Gnome-Rhone.
F XXXVI june 1934, four Wright Cyclone.
I can only guess that Pilot Fly made these models after 1934 as the style and props are all the same for the models.
The DC2 must have produced much later as the props are clearly different.
First is DC2 and F 36.


Fokker FVIII and TII


Fokker FVIIb and FV11a

[johnbeugels]

Thanks Geoffrey for placing the pictures to the site.

Looking at the list from Pilot Fly there are some remarks.
The Fokker F VII never had two engines.
Not in the list are my Fokkers.
Fokker F VII a, model has 1 engine with two blade prop, size 105 mm.
Fokker F VII b, model has 3 engines with two blade prop, size 112 mm.
Fokker F XXXVII, model has 4 engines with three blade prop same size as F XXII 150 mm.

In the list is a Fokker F XXII, the model has 4 engines with two blade prop. Fokker sold indeed two F XXII to Swedish Company ABA and this registration is also on the model in the picture. The real plane was Fokkers last plane before war and was a later type than F XXXVII, numbered XXII because of 22 passengers cabin. The plane had 2 blade props. So the model in the list is very accurate.

Any more information is very welcome.

[Tone]

Interesting airplane registrations:

When I was little, I had a hardcover book from Scribners Publishers, called Skyways 'Round The World. The cover was dark blue with a photo of the Graf Zeppelin and a Dornier Wal. In it was a photo of the plane with registration HN-ACC. Also, these die cast planes with PH-KLM were made in the 30s. This fictitious registration was also seen on the Japanese tin planes in the 50s, particularly the DC-7, Stratocruiser and even the DC-8 (note also: SK-SAS was invariably the registration for SAS tin toy planes).